Antithesis Hour 0001 - Defining Hyperpreterism

Welcome to the very first episode of The (NEW) Antithesis Hour with your host Roderick Edwards. In these hour long podcasts we will tackle no holds barred, controversial issues. No kid-gloves. No wishy-washy relativism. No good-ole buddy chats about sports and weather. When you tune in, you will get a full dose of pitting one view against another.

Historic Christianity VS Hyperpreterism Series

First up on the docket is Historic Christianity versus Hyperpreterism. Hyperpreterism, as agreed even by Hyperpreterists is a view that advocates 4 main views that are diametrically opposed to the historic Christian view.

Hyperpreterism advocates (in varying degrees):

1. Jesus came back once and for all in the 1st-century
2. The collective resurrection of believers happened in the 1st-century
3. The Judgment of the wicked and righteous happened in the 1st-century
4. There will be no end of sin/nor culmination of God's plan

I will be joined by perhaps the most consistent Hyperpreterist, a man who goes by the pseudonym of "Rivers of Eden". We will begin by defining our terms so that neither of us can wriggle around later in upcoming episodes.

In this episode we discuss:

1. The agreed definition of heresy (see Rom 16:17)
2. Grammatical, etymological, and historically accurate labels of the various kinds of "Preterism".
3. Basic distinctives of Full or Hyperpreterism.
4. Introduction to next episode: TIME-TEXTS

So, sit back and see how REAL antithesis works. To download to your mp3 device or computer -- right click HERE and SAVEAS.
Or listen using the player below.

Roderick On The Narrow Mind with Gene Cook Jr.

Some people have been asking me where they can listen to the podcast interview I did with Gene Cook Jr. in 2007. Here it is in an easy player (right click here and SAVEAS to download to your computer or mp3 device):

	Pastor Gene Cook, Jr. - Leaving Full Preterism TNM #897 .mp3
	Found at bee mp3 search engine

Another Cultic Hyperpreterist Site

UPDATE:  This update is being posted AFTER the original article that follows, since I think it is important to encourage people whenever they show honesty and integrity.

Ken Palmer, the admin of the site in question, recently posted this apology:

"I want to extend my sincerest apologies for mishandling certain individuals in which I care very much about, and believe that they too need a place to discuss, contend and reproof theirs, and many of the ideas, circulating through the network of Christianity...My wish is that through their forgiveness, they can come feel at ease coming to Covenant Preterism and reactivate their interest in discussion."  -- source

Mr. Palmer should be commended for this rare show of humility among the Hyperpreterist community.  Unfortunately as soon as Mr. Palmer posted this unqualified apology (and even used the word "forgiveness" which some people don't do when they "apologize"), another Hyperpreterist soiled the apology by posting this:

"You have nothing to apologise for.  Lessons to learn maybe (like the rest of us), but nothing to be sorry for. Like the rest of us you’re on a journey, none of us have all the answers, and never will, and you’re doing your best for where you’re ‘currently’ at (as are we all)." -- source

Really? Can this guy get anymore wishy-washy and syncretic?  I mean, this is part of the issue with hyperpreterism in the first place.  Its overarching premise is that God failed to sustain truth and the understanding of truth until along comes men like Max King.  If we are all really just groping around in the dark hoping we'll trip over truth then what good is a "religion" like that?  At this rate, these sites should be renamed Emergent/Postmodern Preterism because that is how it is being presented.  Anyhow, although I accept Mr. Palmer's apology and forgive him.  I no longer have the desire to interact on that site.  I hope Mr. Palmer the best...and by the best I mean him leaving the heresy of Hyperpreterism some day.



In the Hyperpreterist movement, what typically happens is little camps or factions form around a particular teaching or "teacher".   This has given us the Max King/Tim King faction with their "Presence/Transmillennial" website and its humanistic agenda. ("the world is new, thus man is new")  This faction mentality has given us the postmodernist/Emergent hyperpreterism promoted by Virgil Vaduva until it more or less died in the early 2000.  It gave us the 1st-century rapture faction of Ed Stevens, Walt Hibbard and others.  It gave us the pseudo-Reformed faction (until Sam Frost bolted) which is now in a tailspin.  And lastly, the "Covenant Creationists" faction of Tim Martin, Jeff Vaughn, Tami Jelinek and others.

These factions are good at banning each other from their various websites.  What has happened from time to time is that then those ran off go and start yet ANOTHER site and then hypocritically enough, invoke the SAME exclusionary policies that the administrators of the other hyperpreterist sites used to ban them.

Such a case happened when hyperpreterist Ken Palmer and some of his fellow hyperpreterists were either ran off, banned or left...um..."voluntarily" from hyperpreterist websites that would not allow them to talk about topics like anti-Trinitarianism, cessation of  institutional church structures and things like that.

Hyperpret Bryan Lewis Explains Why "Realized Preterism" Won't Work

As readers may be aware, there has been a long time contention that Dr. Kenneth Talbot of Whitefield Theological Seminary has been attempting to insert his own "Reformed" brand of "Preterism" into the movement.  With a movement that already has so many  labels for different kinds of "preterism" -- "Partial-Preterism, Orthodox Preterism, Full Preterism, Hyper-Preterism" -- Talbot's new brand seemed likely to be a welcomed addition to the smorgasbord.  Talbot called his brand,  "Realized Preterism".  Although, official and public details about what his brand of preterism entailed has yet to be released, some Full/Hyper-Preterists received it as merely a stepping stone to eventual Full/Hyper-Preterism.

Mike Bennet, a Hyper-Preterist social-site admin and friend of Sam Frost once said about Realized Preterism:

"Here is what I see happening as a general path to FULL PRETERISM.
Arminian => Dispy => Reformed => Ammilenial => Partial Preterist => Preterist Idealist => Realized Preterist (soon to complete the path) => Full Preterist"  -- source

AD70.net Calls In Don Preston to Shill For Money

After many times begging people to send him money, Mike Loomis the hyperpreterist owner of the hyperpreterist podcast network, AD70.net finally called in the movement's resident "used carsalesman-like" Don Preston. In a 9 minute video; Don Preston urged people to stop supporting "futurist" ministries and churches and instead start sending their money to Loomis.





In the video, Preston claims that the idea that the hyperpreterist movement isn't growing isn't true. This directly contradicts the recent former hyperpreterist teacher, Sam Frost who says the movement ISN'T growing.

FROST QUOTE:

"This is the big deception. It's not "growing". Oh, sure, one here, and one there. And, "Preterism" is not "Full Preterism". Two different systems entirely. Preterism is entirely orthodox. Full Preterism goes way off the reservation. Most church folks have never even heard of Full Preterism. Conduct your own poll." 3/7/2011 (facebook)

Which is it?

That Loomis had to bring out the big gun shows that Loomis is getting desperate. He has openly said he has sunk over $10,000.00 into his hyperpreterist podcast network; all the while not having a day job. His family has to be feeling the squeeze. Loomis is otherwise unemployed. If he can't get his fellow hyperpreterists to support him, his venture will probably go the way of "preterist churches" (as Frost's and Preston's "churches" failed to grow -- ref, hear Preston in his own words).

New Antithesis Hour Announced

TKC will be starting a new podcast series. The inspiration for this new podcast series comes from a failed podcast program of the same name. Why would a failed program inspire a new podcast? The reason the previous program failed, was because first it really was NOT presenting opposing views. Most of the time, the two participants spent more time trying to advance some mediocre middle-ground. Secondly, they spent more time attacking their common enemies rather than critiquing each others view.

So, seeing how badly those participants handled what could have been a good concept, this podcast was born so that we may attempt to do it right. With this in mind, the first series of "The Antithesis Hour" will examine the differences between the traditional Christian view and what is often called "Full" or "Hyper-Preterism. To discuss this topic, I am pleased to announce that joining me is a fellow who even many with the HP movement consider the "most consistent" representative. This gentleman, for his privacy and protection goes by the pseudonym of RiversOfEden.

I want to make the promise to the listeners that they will get a full hour of putting opposing views to the test. Not 50 minutes of buddies chit-chatting about sports or the weather and only 10 minutes of vague, undeveloped opposition. We will do all of this with clear, agreed upon definitions and without either of us threatening to sue the other for imagined "personal attack" or "slander". We won't water down anything but at the same time remain civil.

So, if you want to see opposing view put to the test -- for REAL -- join us. Maybe in the future, we can have other discussions with other guests on topics such as Calvinism vs Arminianism or Institutional Church vs Home Church.

We hope to start this series by April 2011. Thank you for your time. We look forward to having you join us.

Jason Bradfield Story: Analysis of an Ex-Heretic

First, when people hear the word "heretic" or "heresy" they often feel some pity or sympathy for the person being called a heretic. Perhaps it is human nature to feel sorry for and root for the underdog. But is there EVER a right time to describe something as a heresy and the person advocating it a heretic?

To start, we must define what we mean by heresy. In the Christian sense, heresy is NOT simply something that goes against the teaching of those in control. Again, people often visualize the "big bad institutional church"forcing people to believe what the institution is teaching or else be labelled a heretic. However, to correctly define heresy we must decouple ourselves from the idea that the "church" is corrupt and trying to impose beliefs on the poor "followers". This wrong idea, may be a misunderstanding of Protestantism, where a person envisions themselves as a "little Martin Luther" taking on the Roman Catholic Church.

DEFINITION OF HERESY

The text in the Bible that perhaps most succinctly defines heresy is Romans 16:17-18.