Refute Full Preterism Power Pack!

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Planetpreterist Gone?

Like so many full/hyper preterist sites, the premier "social site" Planetpreterist.com appears to have gone dark. No grand send off. No "thanks for the memories". It just slinks away into the dustbin of history. Yet sites like PreteristArchive.com ran by Todd Dennis keep pumping out solid material.

Even Unpreterist.blogspot.com outlived Dee Dee Warren and other so-called "anti-preterist" sites.

What does this mean for the future of the movement? Well, I assure you it is still alive on Facebook with plenty of groups still banning their fellow preterists (especially banning the "Israel Only" folks) so that preterism can remain "pure" and have a semblance of being "Christian". (If they go too far too quickly they'll sink this ship)

If you want to peer into the past (hey, everything is fulfilled in preterism right?), try the Wayback Machine that shows some of PlanetPreterist's webpages.

BOOK PLUG: Buy About Preterism: The End is Past by Roderick Edwards, owner of Unpreterist.blogspot.com and ex-hyperpreterist of 15 years.

About Preterism: The Book

After spending 15 years in the preterist movement and then leaving it in 2007 to become as Sam Frost once said; "the most hated person" by preterists, Roderick Edwards has finally produced the perfect introductory book for anyone who is interested in learning more about the movement and its concepts.

This no holds-barred, non-polemic, non-slanderous review will allow the reader to better understand how someone becomes a preterist and why. This is a must book for anyone engaging not only with preterists but in any theological discussion.

Kindle book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07V3NHX9W
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1079955798
Reviews urged and welcome!!!

Preterism Book UPDATE

Well, I thought I was going to have my book on Preterism completed by now but a couple of things have slowed it down.

1. I'm not really all that motivated to write it. I'm kind of burnt out on all things preterist. :-)
2. Formatting -- I hate having to mess with formatting. I had considered paying someone to do that part of it but I recently hunkered down and figured out how to make it easier.

However, I'm now back on track and hope to have it completed within January 2018. My hope is that the book will be a great reference for people who just want a matter-of-fact, non-polemic explanation. Odd since I've been branded the Trump of bombastic theological discourse.

If anyone wants a specific topic covered, now is the time to send me a comment.  Also, I doubt I will have a forward or a list of glowing endorsements since I'm hated by everyone from Todd Dennis to Gary DeMar. Sure sure, they pretend to like/tolerate me but just go look at the amount of my content Dennis has on PreteristArchive.  I mean when he posts my articles and claims it's "rare" what is he actually saying? "I don't post much of what Roderick writes because I think it's crap"????  Anyhow, I will complete this book and if the reader wants an inside view of the Preterist movement, it will be the source hopefully.

Dee Dee Warren and the Preterist Podcast

Someone emailed me inquiring about old podcasts from "Dee Dee Warren". As you may recall, Dee Dee was THE lone watchman...uh woman at the gate against Full/Hyperpreterism in the early 1990s. She was unrelenting and even took on hypocrites.

Eventually, in about 2007 when I left the Full Preterist movement, Dee Dee invited me to join her "ministry".  At first, we were peas-in-a-pod when it came to our no-holds-barred, almost Martin-Lutherian, Trumpian style where we didn't let snarky, sneaky "leaders" within the movement get away with the crap they were dishing out.

New Direction for Unpreterist

The Unpreterist website is full of exegetical AND (polemic) personal interactions. While some people have trouble whenever discussions revolve around personal or character issues; there is a time and place for such discussions. I have had to contend with a lot of unsavory people throughout the years and I do not apologize for highlighting those episodes. HOWEVER, I think there is enough historical data now available that I need not to continue addressing those issues so much. In that light, the Unpreterist is going to retool a bit to provide more exegetical articles; especially in light of the upcoming book.

THE BOOK
I hope to have the book available in electronic and paperback form before Christmas 2017. It is taking a bit longer due to my day job constraints. The book will be a non-polemic work with a lot of matter-of-fact information, much like you would find at PreteristArchive.

Preterism All Googled Out?

Occasionally I do a Google search on the words preterist and preterism just to see what it returns. What I've noticed lately is that many of the results are from 2008 or before. Now, this could mean that the activity of preterists has moved away from online content but it's more likely reflecting the death of the movement. With all the original movers and shakers out of the picture, all that is left is a disconnected movement of radical individuals each with their own interpretations.

Unpreterist 2017

Well 2016 wanes. Fortunately it was an uneventful year for full preterism. Preterism still remains either a jump off point for people exiting historical Christianity or a niche theology that can't get past its own undermining premises; premises that either claim Christians corrupted or misunderstood the Bible for 2000+ years. Yeah, a real good plan there eh God?

I've tried to follow the really only active place for preterists; FACEBOOK.  Do a search on preterism, preterist, fulfilled eschatology and topics like that.  Oddly enough I often get added to groups without requesting and I'll post something FACTUAL about the history of preterist movement or how its logical conclusion is either Israel-Only or some sort of Universalism and then I get kicked off for a bit and then a few months later, re-added, again without requesting.

PRETERISM is for No one or Everyone:

💥The Israel-Only conclusion is that God was working toward saving only the Elect which according to the logic of preterism is only the true sons of Abraham and terminated in AD70. See, it's all about everything being fulfilled and for the audience for whom it was intended. Most "old school" preterists (ie the one's trying to make a living off books or "ministries") don't much like the Israel-Only (IO) folks because if you believe IO, the book sales and need for pastors/preachers/ministers dries up.

💫The Universalism conclusion is that God was working toward saving everyone He intends to save, which apparently is everyone except the meanie Jewish leaders upon whom the "8 Woes" came. In this version of preterism there is no more sin to condemn anyone. The judgment was in the past. In this version you can still make a buck because someone has to teach people they get a free pass.  In all seriousness, when I was a full preterist I used to fight against "preterist universalism" but now I see it as valid IF a person buys into the premises of preterism in the first place.

PHONE CALLS and EMAILS:

📭I still interact with people who have friends or family being affected by preterism. Every once in a while I'll get an email asking to talk on the phone with folks. I enjoy it to some degree but it typically results in me steering the person to the realization that unless God intervenes, their friend or family isn't bound to listen to them. You see, preterism is a cult of arrogance and a cult of one. Before you get too far in a discussion with a person on fire for preterism, you will realize they have redefined so many theological terms that it's like trying to talk to a person about football when all they talk about is hoops, baskets, dribbling and free-throws. The end result for most of these preterist friends will be to conclude one of the points above or park somewhere along the way and go no further.

BOOK WRITING:

📚I keep saying I want to write a book about preterism. The content on this site alone is enough to fill a book or two but I want to construct the book in a more matter-of-fact manner and be less polemic. This becomes easier as I get further away from some of the more hateful characters within the preterist movement; some which have actually threatened to harm me or my family unless I shut up. Plus many of them have quietly dropped out too. We'll see what 2017 brings.

CONCLUSIONS:

📌If anyone wants me to write an article about a specific topic or text, just let me know. I try to get back to such requests but sometimes life gets going and all the theoretical end times junk just gets lost in the bustle...I said it that way specifically because many full preterists get lost in preterism and forget to live life.  I guess I'm getting a bit more nonchalant in my old age. 😕

Commentary on Revelation 11:1-2

Preterists like to point out that neither the ancient nor the Reformation theologians penned a commentary on the book of Revelation. By this, the preterists imply that eschatology has not been addressed in any systematic manner until along came the preterists. However, the book of Revelation is merely a cryptic version of much of the content found within the Olivet Discourse (Mt 24/Mk 13/Lk 17 & 21) which has been extensively commented on by various scholars down through the ages.


The book of Revelation has always been a difficult book to interpret and an especially popular book for speculators and would be "prophesy" buffs to dabble within. You can take the symbolic language and spin it almost anyway you want and you'll sound like you got a Jack Van Impe degree. This is partly the reason theologians have avoided commenting on the book of Revelation; not because they didn't have a systematic eschatology. As a matter of fact, eschatology is perhaps the doctrine upon which historic Christianity is MOST unified if we just consider the 4 main aspects of endtimes theology. The Church is in 100% agreement despite denominational position:

Whose House?

Whether more contemporary hiphop lyrics about "Run's House" or a British nursery rhyme about the "house that Jack built" the focus on houses goes back millennia. In monarchies we talk about the "House of..." whatever ruling family. In politics we talk about the House of Lords and Commons or Representatives. In the Bible we also see the focus on some houses.

• The House of Jacob
• The House of Judah
• The House of Israel
• The House of Joseph
• The House of David

We might replace the word House with Line or Family or Descendants or even Kingdom, but even then the entire meaning is not captured. The Bible isn't merely talking about biological connections to these people (Jacob/Israel, Judah, Joseph, David), but also the ideological and spiritual line.

The Last Day: The Sequel?

In 2002, while I was still fully within the full preterist movement I penned a movie script I consider a sequel to Mel Gibson's "The Passion of Christ". Aptly called The Last Day, the story was told through the eyes of Ittai, the son of a temple priest. It relates the historical events leading up to the AD70 destruction of the Herodian Temple in Jerusalem and the eventual horrors of that war including a mother who eats her own child to survive. While I no longer hold to a full preterist theology, the script still accurately depicts the historical events of that time. So, if you have never read a movie script; break out the popcorn, turn down the lights and other distractions and immerse yourself in the story.

ONE: Exploration of Individualism

Finally published my first microbook via Amazon on Kindle. Please consider reviewing it for me. Explore the history and development of individualism and why it is such an oddity among cultures. Learn how individualism has impacted everything from religion to government. Understand why individualism often manifests as rebellion or even psychosis. A perfect introduction for a person from a collective or socialistic country. Building the case why individualism is the ultimate evolution of human societies, this book will take the reader from tribal construct to the State and finally to the singular persona. Every page is packed with thought provoking insights into the mental, emotional, and cultural processes required to develop into a truly individualistic expression.

An Examination of the Israel-Only Doctrine of Preterism

Initially I was asked to write a refutation of the Israel-Only doctrine but I wanted to expand the scope to include a more comprehensive examination of the newest manifestation of preterism. I will assume the reader has a basic knowledge of preterism but for sake of clarity, preterism (also known as full preterism and hyperpreterism, as distinguished from the lesser developed partial preterism) is the belief that Jesus already returned and that the attending eschatological (end time) events such as the collective resurrection, the judgment of wicked and righteous, and the end of sin has already happened in the first century. These conclusions are based on two main premises.

1. Audience Relevancy - The New Testament is mainly to and about the first century people.
2. All is Fulfilled - All of the New Testament eschatological events were fulfilled in the first century.

Upon those two main interpretative keys, all of the Bible is filtered, thus concluding a fulfilled eschatology or pret (past) -erism.

Blow it all up!!!

Preterists think they have a winning argument when they claim Martin Luther and the other Reformers were advocating something never advocated before in the Church. You see, preterists often quote Luther at his trial before the Papists:

"Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Holy Scriptures or by evident reason-for I can believe neither pope nor councils alone, as it is clear that they have erred repeatedly and contradicted themselves-I consider myself convicted by the testimony of Holy Scripture, which is my basis; my conscience is captive to the Word of God. Thus I cannot and will not recant, because acting against one's conscience is neither safe nor sound. God help me. Amen."

From this, preterists (and radical religious individualists of all types) often see themselves as going against the big bad Church and paving their own way. Preterists take comfort in this idea that Luther and the Reformers were advocating something new and never heard of before in the Church. Preterists claim they are merely continuing this.

Echo Chamber of Preterist Groups

Well I left all preterist Facebook groups today after my benign comment was removed from a post that talked about how preterists take words literally. I compared that to when Democrats see words like socialism and think it just means being part of a social society. That when preterists encounter words like "come" they often read into it an interpretation of "come back" or "return". Or when they read words like "resurrection" in one place, they think it always means the same thing, even though there is clearly a resurrection the moment someone has faith and is "born again".  That resurrection didn't need to wait until AD70 or some future date.

Did the Early Church Fathers Use the Book of Revelation when writing the first Creeds?

First of all, why is the book of Revelation so important to you? or rather preterists and dispensationalists? I mean this nicely. The book of Rev is merely a rehash of most of the eschatological points made either by Jesus directly in the Gospels or by the apostles in the Epistles. The book of Rev doesn't really bring new information. Having said that, I'm not trying to dismiss it. But there is evidence that the book of Rev was being consulted/read by the ECF -- http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/e-catena/revelation1.html

 Irenaeus clearly had knowledge/access to the book of Rev, and he lived long before 325AD. Since the Council of Nicea included bishops/elders from all over the world, the idea that the Book of Rev may not have played a part in consultation is a stretch. I think there is an implication by some people that there was no unified acceptance of what was scripture until after Constantine brought everyone together. That is clearly not true.

Further, there seems to be an idea among preterists that the Church lacked full access to scriptures and thus only had enough information to make partial interpretations; thus causing so-called "futurism". All of this undermines God. It leaves us with a God who was unable or unwilling to solidify His basic eschatological plan among His followers. It leaves us wondering if even now, do we really have the correct Canon? The Council of Nicea wasn't about defining which books were to make up the Bible, it was mainly about Christ's relationship with God the Father; whether Jesus was begotten and what that meant. -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea#Biblical_canon

 Since the Canon wasn't the topic, there is no way of knowing which books of the Bible were consulted. The council was more about unifying Christianity in general. Had there been a major dispute about which books were or weren't Canon, that would have no doubt manifested itself at this point. So, in conclusion; if the implication is that the Nicene Creed is flawed because it supposedly didn't consult the entire Bible, that would be a wrong accusation, since we had convened at Nicea, perhaps a body of believers unlike any that would ever be assembled again this side of Heaven. Their combined knowledge of the Bible led to what we have in the Creed.

Preterist Creed -- Then and Now

While preterists have been fond of saying that they "have no creed but Christ" which is their latent denominational church of Christ influence (source), or accusing Christians of being "creedalists"; the FACT remains that creed simply means "belief". Whenever someone articulates their beliefs, it is a creed -- not just in religion but in any ideology.

Semitis Antiquis: The Old Paths

Martin Luther is often cited by preterists as the example of someone that went against the status quo, against "traditions" and "creeds". He is that man, they say that used "the Bible alone". He made a purely "scriptural" argument; after all the phrase "sola scriptura" is associated with Luther. But Luther was no theological anarchist. A quote by Luther you almost NEVER see from a preterist is:

"A council has the power, and is bound, to suppress and condemn new articles of faith according to Holy Scripture and the ancient faith." -- On the Councils and the Church, Martin Luther 1539.

 Notice the date; 1539 which is 22 years AFTER Luther nailed the 95 Thesis on the Wittenberg door, so this a maturely developed sentiment by Luther that "new articles of faith" should be condemned by the Holy Scripture AND the ancient faith.

What if you were no longer a preterist...?

I'm speaking to you that have been preterist for 5, 10 or more years. Can you imagine what would happen if you were no longer a preterist? I'm not trying to tell you it would be a country song in reverse where the spouse comes back, the dog comes back and your pickup truck is running again.  I'm not talking about all the positive things that may come with not being a preterist. I want to focus on what you would lose.

I mean, being a preterist is...well...kind of cool to you right? It makes you "unique". It makes you the smartest one in the room...or a least smarter since the "room" is much, much smaller. You have spent years arguing or talking about why preterism is superior to all other theological interpretations. You have built an entire culture around being preterist.

Maybe you are part of preterist discussion groups or even a moderator or owner of the group. You might have attended or spoken at a preterist conference; not to mention all the preterist books you have.

Seriously, who will you be if you're not a preterist?

The Tales of Kenneth Talbot Junior

My last significant mention of the hapless perpetual victim, Jason Bradfield was in January 2014 when he was creepishly stalking on the announcement of my daughter's wedding. I really haven't given much thought about him since. But he apparently is STILL stalking me. On Facebook, someone asked what I thought about a post Bradfield posted on October 5, 2015.

After reading the pretentious first few paragraphs I finally got to the incredible false tales of Bradfield. He says:

"During my time in the hyper-preterist movement, I met Roderick who was a seasoned adherent at that point. Over the years, attempts were made to work with him on various projects but things never panned out. Roderick would always ruin it by writing personal hit-pieces against those with whom he disagreed. He spent more time slandering people than he did actually teaching what he believed. I wanted nothing to do with him and neither did the vast majority of hyper-preterists."

The New Preterist Movement

From about 2000-2010 the preterist movement appeared to be in decline. Self-proclaimed preterist champion, Virgil Vaduva has since faded and gone on to full radical mode; advocating hatred for the police even going so far as projecting the phrase "F*ck the police" on the side of a Walmart with laser lights. Preterist conference king, Sam Frost renounced preterism and last we knew works at a Lowes hardware store. The point is, the "big names" are gone. Sure, Don Preston is still sipping coffee and musing over the same old lines about audience relevancy and times texts. But there is no more growth among that bunch.

But something interesting is happening, a new preterist movement is forming. These are people who often had little to no interaction with the old school preterist "leaders". The leaders whom these new preterists would find to be hypocritical anyway, since those leaders wanted to pretend that preterism is simply a part of historical Christianity. The new preterists are more honest with themselves. Most admit that preterism is something different than the Christianity of history. Of course they will often claim Christianity has corrupted the "truth" or that there was some sort of cover up.

Interviewed By a Preterist

On August 23rd 2015 I was interviewed by preterist, Corey Shultz. The written interview is as follows:

Corey Shultz

Roderick Edwards, Thank you for interviewing with me today. To start, how long have you been a Christian, and how long have you been studying the bible?

Roderick Edwards

While like most Christians I was somewhat raised "Christian", neither of my parents were Christians. At age 16, in 1984 I was struggling with life questions, as many teens do. I contemplated suicide. I figured it was important to figure out if God is "real". Oddly enough, I found a brand new Bible in a cabinet in my dad's basement, apparently left there by previous occupants. I began to read it like any other book; from the beginning.

A Very Sincere Message to All Preterists (SHARE FREELY)

As you know I adamantly believed and taught preterism for 15 years.  I had everything to gain by remaining within preterism. I was one of the original authors of the preterist book Dave Green/Mike Sullivan/Ed Hassert wrote.  But I removed myself when I could no longer honestly say I believed preterism.  That's when Sam Frost stepped in and co-authored.  And now we see Frost is no longer a preterist either.

I know it is difficult to  give up preterism.  We had invested so much of our lives into it.  How can we tell people..."Um... I was wrong, not just a little wrong but wrong in my entire premise".  The radical paradigm shift isn't really Christianity at all.  It is something altogether different, just as Mormonism and JWs use the bible and Christian words but aren't Christianity.

That my friends is a very humbling experience to have to admit you have been wrong for 15 years.  Who will ever trust you again?

Before The Doctrinal Debates

This site has typically highlighted the various issues with doctrines that lead to or are part of full/hyperpreterism but there is something perhaps more important than that. Before the doctrinal debates back and forth; whether we're talking about Preterism, Mormonism, Islam or even intra-Christian debates like baptism or freewill versus monergism -- we should ask ourselves one simple question:

WHAT KIND OF HUMAN AM I?

This may seem like an odd question, but I mean it. What kind of person viciously attacks another? What kind of person lies about and stalks people? What kind of person claims to really know the hearts of other people let alone our own.  The Bible says:

“The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?" -- Jer 17:9

25 HOURS OF RIVERSOFEDEN - No Future In The Past

RiversOfEden is the nom de plume of a fellow who has been within the Full Preterist movement since the late 1980s. He continues to cause a buzz within the movement because he takes the premise of FP (that all has been fulfilled by AD70) to its logical conclusion that only the Elect upto the year AD70 were "saved". After AD70, the earth is left to its own devices. People die and simply return to the dust.

During the height of the movement, Michael Loomis, another FP, used to host an Internet radio program. The program is no longer active but Loomis recently made available, about 25 hours of discussion with RiversOf Eden.  The programs were part of a series called NO FUTURE IN THE PAST. The collection below contains shows from August 2012 to Nov 2012.

Loomis risked losing financial support from FP by airing these discussions.

Anyone interested in a logical "what-now" assessment of Full Preterism should take this opportunity to listen to these discussions.  Thanks Mr. Loomis!!!

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