Saturday, June 2, 2012

The Art of Narrative Making: Sam Frost the Liar.

It is no secret that there is much content on this site about Sam Frost.  It is not because I have some "obsession" with Sam Frost but because like it or not, Frost has presented himself first as the voice of hyperpreterism and now as the voice of so-called "anti-hyperpreterism".  Of course there will be a focus on a person like that.  You know, I wish I could write articles detailing how Frost realized his hyperpreterism was a grave error and that he is going to spend many years in humility trying to undo some of the damage he has done.  Instead, Frost pretends to combat hyperpreterism while actually proffering another form of it.  He has even said he has "not left" elements of hyperpreterism, and Frost's mentor; Kenneth Talbot says his eschatology is "akin to David Chilton's" (an avowed hyperpreterist).

Frost also has a documented knack for narrative making; that is he creates story lines and then tries to get people to believe them.  The last narrative by Frost is that the only reason he is being greatly opposed by hyperpreterist Dave Green and company, and the only reason Green and company oppose Frost's mentor Talbot is that I put them up to it.  Frost says to Talbot follower, Dee Dee Warren (not her real name):

"Dee, it is quite obvious that Dave just doesn't really care at all. That's why he keeps it up. He doesn't care. He really believes his own lies, his own made up world of Talbotism. We have to keep in mind that it is just coming from the Five. I don't see it coming from any where else, and make no bones about it. Had I not left Full Preterism, and was over there fighting Bonehead, these guys would say nothing about Whitefield or Talbot. I can prove that by the fact that Dave was "excited" to announce that I was a part of House Divided. My credentials were NEVER questioned. They were WELCOMED. But, when I left Full Preterism, all of the sudden, with the arrival of Bonehead, "Talbotism" takes on an invented sinister conspiracy. Whitefield becomes a "mail order" seminary, "made up" with "no credibility." If any moron cannot see what's going on here, then I pity you. It is PAINFULLY OBVIOUS why they have turned against Talbot and Whitefield AFTER I left Hyper Heresy land. Roderick had done so before them, true, and then he gets over there WITH THEM, and they fan their sickening flames of hatred together like a bunch of demons. It's pathetic. And, most see it. Most get it. Most understand what sickies these guys are and their obsessions. Birds of a feather." --  
This narrative is easily proven as false. Dave Green, Mike S. and Ed H. DID question Sam's credentials BEFORE he was ever let onto their book project. They worried that he was STILL too buddy-buddy with "Dear brother Virg [Vaduva]" and his Emergentism. They were worried he was STILL thinking Mormons and the Pope are his "brothers in Christ" as Sam has said before. But Sam did as he has always done...he LIED to Dave, Mike S. and Ed H. He tried to make it look like others made that stuff up about him, or that he was no longer a pandering man-pleaser. So, yes they DID question his credentials before I even came back to Green's site.

Secondly, there has ALWAYS been an issue with how Talbot has interacted with Full Preterist....even BEFORE I came back to this site. Sam himself had an issue with Talbot's welcoming FP Kelly Birks into the fold. Here is what Sam said then (now conveniently deleted from his website):

"Full Preterism has made such a force upon our 'orthodox' opponents that they have unwittingly accomodated unorthodox and unhistoric elements into their own 'orthodox' (so called) and 'historic' (so called) eschatology! They cannot possibly wave the flag of orthodoxy any longer." -- (source )

Mike B. said about Talbot's (Realized Preterism) BEFORE I came back here:

"Here is what I see happening as a general path to FULL PRETERISM.
Arminian => Dispy => Reformed => Ammilenial => Partial Preterist => Preterist Idealist => Realized Preterist (soon to complete the path) => Full Preterist" --

Further, the first mention on PretCosmos that I find is Nov 2006 by Sam himself. And look and see if Ed. H is or isn't questioning Sam credentials even then:

"Ed, You said, "it IS a definition of Faith." Calvin said, 'it is not the WHOLE." I agree, it is a PART, which is what I gave. It DESCRIBES the result: assurance and conviction. Certainly that is a PART. But it is NOT "an EXACT definition." Ed, if you want to continue to belittle my education, go ahead. You can talk to Dr. Kenneth Talbot at Whitefield about that." --

Sept 2009, Dave Green publishes an entire article on Talbot (again BEFORE Sam leaves the movement) --

Notice too that Chuck Coty and Mike Loomis and several non-regulars on PretCosmos (not part of the so-called narrative 5 that Sam is building in his mind), supported Dave's assessment.

It was Ed H. (not me) that first started pointing out how Talbot created his own denomination/church/seminary --

Sam has a real talent for lying except that he has told so many it is easy to show where he is lying.

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