SIGN-O-THE-TIMES
The high-profile "anti-preterist" website; PreteristBlog, administered by "Dee Dee Warren" ceased operation without warning. The site is still online but all the content is gone and replaced only by a simple message referring visitors to a Facebook page...a page that also doesn't offer any update. While I don't want to speculate as to what happened, I am hopeful that this is a sign that Warren is backing away from her association with hyperpreterist enabler, Kenneth Talbot. But I doubt it. PreteristBlog's departure also shows it outlived its relevance anyway. Once it started cozying up to Sam Frost, it was doomed.
YES-NO-NOT
Speaking of Frost, when he left the movement *wink wink* to follow after "Realized Preterism", he boasted how he was ready to debate any full preterist, anywhere at anytime. Hyperpret author, Don Preston took up the challenge but when Frost's marital life took a bad turn, he backed out not giving any reason for it. Frost's P.R. man said since Frost only agreed to the debate verbally and not in writing that he wasn't bound to stick with the deal. Hmmm...so much for Mt 5:37 eh? I hope Frost's life gets back in order and that he can uncouple himself from Talbotism.
RIVERS-O-EVIL?
Perhaps the most consistent full preterist ever, a fellow who goes by the name "RiversOfEden" had been advocating for applying the full preterist premises...well...consistently, which would mean when they say "all was fulfilled" in the first century and "audience relevancy", Rivers sees the last generation of Christians being those in the 1st century. There is no more salvation after AD70. God's plan is done...upon that "audience" and that generation. However, other full prets like Preston and up-comer Michael Miano saw how destructive this consistency was to full preterism. After all, if it is all fulfilled, Miano doesn't get to be a "pastor" and Preston's book market dries up right? So, Miano and others had worked overtime on Facebook to try to shut River's down. It doesn't appear to be working.
FACEBOOK PRETS
And actually, Facebook is one of the last places you can find full preterist activity. The premier sites are ghost towns. PlanetPreterist...you know, the one ran by Brian McLaren wannabe, Virgil Vaduva died a few years back shortly after Vaduva's failed foray into local politics. Likewise, Frost's sounding board site lost its founder and "techie" guy so it dried up. Other full preterist sites are just as bad off. But if you really want your fill of full preterism rhetoric, Facebook has groups you can join. There are now even a lot more REAL opposition groups as well on Facebook (unlike the fake PretBlog).
THE FUTURE IS THE END
I usually try to offer a bit of prediction for the coming year, but 2014 looks like it will hardly register a peep out of the Full Preterists. Miano was promising but after his relationship issues I'm not certain we can consider he will be very effective. What does that have to do with anything you ask? Well, in most mainline Christian denominations, a divorced pastor would be forced to resign. (see 1 Tim 3:5) I'm not trying to be mean or rude to Miano, I actually like the guy and think he tries to be sincere but he may need some time to regroup.
Preston hasn't put out anything new in years...even his "new" books are merely the same old rehashes. His coffee sipping videos are parodies of himself.
John Noe has been attempting to assert more of a voice but he can't seem to get out of the way of his own ego. He even offered to debate fellow Full Pret, David Green but then backed out because Green wouldn't worship Noe like his fawners do.
So, I predict that if Full Preterism doesn't virtually die in 2014, it will be of such little consequence that even this site may go dormant...I mean, what is there to talk about here if we can't even talk about the silly things the Full Prets are saying and doing if they aren't saying and doing anything anymore? Which is a blessing. Their mouths and the mouths of their so-called "partial-preterist" enablers have been stopped. -
12 comments:
Great developments for 2013, We hope this site will not close even if the HyperPreterist big names might virtually die or may I say ran out of words, The war may be won but there are still battles to be done so "All the Captives might be freed" There are still a few organizations that hold on to this heresy and are still poisoning some few people by removing their blessed hope such as (International Preterist Association led by Walt Hibbard and a few nobody's) even though its clearly a Heretic teaching, there will still be some people who "might be" victims of that virus
As sinister and deceptive like the lies of ROE/ Rivers of Evil have said; it's all is done in 70 AD, the 1st Century Christians are the last generation, no more salvation for succeeding generations because of the so called "audience relevance" Then He should not Use the Bible as well, since the Entire NT is addressed Particularly to the Romans, Hebrews, Corinthians, Colossians, etc with the pronoun YOU....(Mark 2:31 - Love YOUR neighbor as you love yourself) only for them (Matt 2:20 - Lo I am with YOU always even to the end of the Age)
(Titus 2:12 - teaching US to deny ungodliness... and live righteously in this PRESENT Age - it's ONLY for TITUS and the Cretans, the Letter was addressed to THEM in that aion 1st Century!) ROE is that consistent that WE in the 21st Century DONT need to Love our Neighbor, No need to Preach the Gospel or Make disciples and no need to deny Ungodliness and just live as we like/Hedonistic since we are not the "audience" in those verses. Rivers of Evil should just shut up and avoid preaching nor quoting FROM the NT Bible, its NOT for Him. Period! (lol) :)
Anyway We hope 2014 will be the year when the Full Preterist movement will be Fully silenced. We Hope this site will ALWAYS exist and continually be used by GOD to be the Hospital for people who will be seeking cure of that Heretic HyperPreterist virus that was become malignant due to the disappointment of being not "Left Behind". :)
Just a correction for the verses posted above,
Mark 12:31 and Matt 28:20 instead of Mark 2:31 and Matt 2:20
Just hastily typed and got a little carried away by Rivers of Evil. Haha!
The best way to slow the progress of the "Covenant Eschatology" nonsense being taught (for personal profit) by Don K. Preston and Edward E. Stevens is to stop sending them money and buying their books.
The implications of Full Preterism are utterly heretical and undermine ALL categories of historic, orthodox Christian theology (including Christology and Soteriology).
All of the same exegetical arguments used by Preston and Stevens and their followers to insist that "all" biblical prophecy was fulfilled by AD70 necessitate that there cannot be anymore salvation or resurrection life for anyone who did not experience the fulfillment of the prophecies at that time.
I find it rather amusing to read the comments above. Not one of you, no, not one clearly understands what's being said by the full preterist. Not really!! So, if you're still waiting for Jesus' second coming, please pull up a chair with the Jew who is still waiting for the first coming. You have plenty to talk about and plenty of time since you'll both be waiting a long, long, very long time for either the first or second coming!!! Heh, heh!
^to the comment above me, I I commend you for the guts of posting here promoting your Full Preterist opinion claiming that "Not one" understand, that's really what's amusing. For your info, many here are Full Preterists for a long time including the Blogger himself who got enlightened and finally renounced that heretic doctrine because they realize that the "Paradigm Shift" you HyperPreterist believe is a baloney and pure private interpretation.
Yes the posters above got it Right, because they are logical and has a strong biblical common sense, that's why they know that Christ will be back a second time bodilly and to the side comment of pulling a chair with the Jew who is still waiting for the first coming. Cool, would glad too..but the analogy fails because there's a HUUGE difference. Jews REJECTED the Christ as Messiah, the Christian Church did NOT. It is right that they "missed" the first coming because they want a Physical ruler, that's why they are still waiting for the "Political Messiah" who will restore the Davidic kingdom. But it will be fulfilled on the "Second Comming" Where Christ will come again "bodily" a Second time in the Glorified state. Thus the so called 1st Coming for the Jews is actually the 2nd Coming for the Church and to the Christians, That's why many Jews will be led to repentance as prophesied when they would recognize that they missed Jesus 1st coming and He will realize He indeed is the Messiah.
It is actually very clear from the scriptures, so obvious that Full Preterist's like you will twist the clear meaning for the sake of being different and unique. That's why Full Preterism is a cult and Heresy just like the Mormons,Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah's Witness, etc...because they deviate from the teachings of Orthodox Christianity that has been preserved with the Help of the Holy Spirit for more than 2000 years. And it's pointless to debate with people like you cause your already under the trance of the so called "Paradigm Shift" Full Preterism has infected you. That's why HyperPreterist deny the obvious and explain it based on their "70 AD" filter or spiritualize everything to fit their heretic eschatology.
In the meantime, it will be better if you pull a chair with Don Preston, Steve Stevens and Walt Hibbard. It might not be long, but you will enjoy sipping a cup of coffee a la Prestons morning musings. It's really less stressful especially when you think that the World will not end Atheists believe that too!, cause it feels good to the Carnal nature of the Flesh, believing that there will be no coming judgement, eat drink and be merry for death is the end and the Earth will last forever. Heh, Heh!
Many things you've said are enough to give me a good chuckle. But your cocky foolishness is amazing. For, indeed you've fallen into the same trap as the Jews. You acknowledge the Jews were waiting for a physical ruler, so they missed the first coming. In your next breath, you're as carnal as they were. You, also, wait for a second coming with a physical ruler "in bodily form." Your foolishness knows no boundaries.
As for the orthodox Christianity part, Wow! Everyone knows that the first generation church was expecting Jesus in their day. Folks like you will say they were just mistaken. And then you turn around and say to the non-Christian the Word of God is without error. Which is it?
Jesus, Paul, Peter (et. al.) were absolutely correct and things happened as they believed or else you have no leg to stand. IF Jesus did NOT come back already and they were just mistaken, what else were they wrong about, Fool?!!!! The second generation church got started on the wrong foot and it's been wrong ever since. You and your cronies will keep it going.
I'll be even more bold! Since you like prophecy, I will prophecy. You and everyone like you are NOT ever getting raptured. As you go to your friends' funerals, you can sit there and begin to realize your whole doctrine needs to be overhauled again. Take a look at Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel. He was convinced he was getting raptured because Jesus was coming back soon. Guess what? He's DEAD!
You are an empty and broken cistern. Your beliefs do not hold water, much less sound doctrine. See, if you can hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Isaiah 6 is fulfilled on you, too!
Cheers,
Unlike so many other sites, I have a policy to that allows for almost unfettered comments. I do request that the commenter use some sort of name even if a pseudonym but as you see, I usually still post the comment. So, to the hostile commenters, this is a rare place to sound off.
One thing I want to note about the above comment, notice how the person says "IF Jesus did NOT come back already..."
Therein lies the problem with the hyperpreterist reasoning. The verses in Mt 24/Mk 13/Lk 21 are NOT about Jesus coming BACK. The word "back" or "return" is never used in those texts. It is about His soon/at hand/shortly/about to be "coming"....but that coming was BEFORE the presence of the Ancient of Days/The Father/The Power as we read in Daniel 7:13-15 and Matthew 26:64.
The reason hyperpreterism catches so many people and causes them to spew falsehoods about what people REALLY believe is because hyperpreterists either unintentionally or by way of their "leaders" intentionally distort the real definition of words. Or even add to words like we see the commenter above has.
Where has anyone said anything about Mt 24/Mk 13/Lk 21 being about Jesus coming BACK? This is a Dispensationalistic reasoning. Hyperpreterists appear to use the false premise of Dispensationalism and then apply it to AD70.
Most of historical/orthodox Christianity has understood that the Olivet Discourse was about the AD70 destruction of the Temple and and Jewish religious structure. It is only the Dispensationalists and their alter-egos, the hyperpreterists that conclude that the Olivet Discourse is about Jesus coming BACK.
To be certain, there are places that show Jesus will return/come back, but neither as physical king over a mere plot of land, nor as unseen, unnoticed waif of 2000+ years.
Just as I thought. You're a coward when it comes to the truth. Hiding behind wanting to know who a person is who is handling the truth so well. That's okay, you know I nailed you so you could not answer. I know it and best of all, our Father in Heaven saw how you hid from the truth. I dare you to post what I wrote. In the meantime, you have to continue your life knowing you fell far short. You're an unGood and unFaithful servant. You're welcome to respond to what I wrote, but should post it so folks can see you're more of menace than a help. I have changed your name from EDWard to COWard.
EXHIBIT A:
1. I've allowed this person to repeatedly post here, anonymously; yet they call me a "coward".
2. This person accusing me of hiding yet here I am, out in the open. No hiding, not even my name.
It is ashame people have to behave this way, but this is what full preterism does to people; ultimately sets them up to think they are the smartest person in the room.
Like you have written about in other articles, a lot of hyper preterist come from a dispensationalism background. This leads them to the presumption that "coming" in MT 24 is describing the return of Christ, because hyper preterist bring Pretrib or posttrib dispensationalist exegesis into their presupposing that the "coming" is about the final consummation of all things.
We been so indoctrinated through Darby, Scolfield, LaHaye, Ice and all the other Dispensationalist that Olivet Discourse is about the return of Christ, that hardly anyone ever questions this presuppostion. Hyper preterist just continues to build their theories from this faulty foundation, even if they deny it. Hyper preterism assumes that "coming" is the return of Christ ( dispensationalism presupposes this) instead of that the "coming" is His "coming" to the Father (Ancient of Days) which is the fulfillment of Daniel 7.
Thanks for being so adamant on this point. I hope this will help those to rightly divide the scripture, so they won't be shamed by not adhering to proper exegesis.
You may be considered rude by some, BUT I think you are great representative of Protestants faith. Keep running you race.
Kenny
Amen!
There is a lot wrong with the new testament if Christ didn't mean he was coming back immediately. Futurists in general are a huge part of atheistic philosophy running rampant in today's generation. You guys need to stop acting like Paul, Peter, James, Mathew mark Luke and John were confused and let the bible speak for itself. I won't comment on the distaste the first 2 posters put in my mouth because of their brashness, but I will say it is wrong to call people heretics and whatever else was said about preterist in the body of the original thread. Get a grip, 150 years of unkept promises by futurists is enough
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