Friday, January 1, 2010

When Far is Too Far: Sam Frost Calls His Fellow ‘Preterists’, “Hyperpreterists”

Hyperpreterists often make the case they are allowed to “challenge” historic Christianity and the billions of Christians of united interpretation.  They believe they are like little Luthers standing up to the big bad Johann Ecks of the world.  The interesting thing is, when Luther was accused of being akin to John Wycliffe and John Huss, Luther intially denied the association but later after really reading those men’s writings he agreed he was in their company (see here).  However, hyperpreterists leaders like Sam Frost freely associates himself with “heretics” like Arius (see here) and yet gets upset when we agree the hyperpreterists are akin to the Arians.
But just how far can someone go before even heretics consider them heretical?  And who gets to decide these things?  I mean, if hyperpreterists don’t think the united historic Christian witness gets to decide who is and isn’t within the bounds of the community of saints; who gets to decide when something is outside those bounds?  Well, apparently Sam Frost gets to arbitrarily decide such things. 

During an August 2009 podcast Frost claimed that another faction of “full preterists” are the REAL “hyperpreterists”.  Why?  Because they go further than Frost and his group.  Do you see how laughable and hypocritical this guy is.  Listen to the 26 second audio (413 kb)
“Um especially - and I don’t mean to bring this up and I don’t want to discuss it but the Beyond Creation Science stuff - um definitely goes further than - see I would call - in fact I have an article where I do refer to that and then the universalizing tendency, I refer to that as hyper - I call that hyperpreterism.  I think a couple of years ago I started saying this stuff is going so far out into - I don’t where anymore” (Hyperpret Samuel Frost claiming other “full preterists” are the real hyperpreterists)
Yes, that quote is exactly word for word how Frost speaks, stammered and convoluted.  I like how he brings something up and claims he doesn’t mean to bring it up and doesn’t want to discuss it.  When can his fellow “preterists” discuss it with him?  Why does he get to decide what is and isn’t brought up and discussed?
But let’s compare this to another quote by Frost –
“Now my question is when did we do this for the second coming of Christ? When have we had these councils & Arius that came up & said ‘Hey, ‘, because afterall we became Trinitarians because there was a guy named Arius who stood up & said, `Hey I think Jesus was the first created being. I don’t think he was an eternal being.’  Then you had a lot of people begin saying, ‘Now wait a minute here.’ & they began to go back to the Scriptures & they began to fight for hundreds of years & they finally came out with what you know we have at know Nicean Chalcedon.  But somebody rose their hand up & said, ‘Hey can I challenge this?’ & that’s all..that’s what I’m doing I’m asking, ‘Can I challenge this? Can I question -he shall come again and judge the living & the dead- Can we…can I question that? ‘ (you gotta hear him actually say it — source)
So Frost pleads for his “right” to “challenge” even citing and comparing himself to a KNOWN heretic like Arius yet Frost wants to deny that same right to his fellow “full preterists”???  They can’t go further than Sam Frost otherwise he considers them “so far out”.
This man has a history of setting himself up as the smartest man in the room and then throwing under the bus, those who supported him and helped get him there.  He is a panderer that looks for the opportunties that make him look like he is the smart guy while everyone else is “so far out” there.
I actually feel sorry for Frost’s fellows whom he has sacrificed so he can be the voice of the movement.  Especially since the type of hyperpreterism Frost espouses is perhaps the most inconsistent and hobbled together form there is.  I actually respect Virgil Vaduva’s position more than Frost’s.
What is more amusing is that Frost just co-authored a book with fellow hyperpreterists; one which advocates there is no more precept for water-baptism or taking the Lord’s Supper (Dave Green — see #106 and #75), is that also “so far out” there or is it ok while Frost uses people to promote himself?
Wake up you people in the movement.  Whether you agree with this stuff or not, do you really think men like Sam Frost are accurately depicting the premise and conclusions and all the implications of the movement?  Or is he summarily rejecting large portions of the movement so that he can place himself at the head of the movement?  Are you ready to ask Frost these things publicly?  Forget about big, bad. meanie Roderick Edwards and start holding the “leaders” of the movement accountable for the things they are saying.
full audio link here: (because we’re not afraid to let you examine what we are saying compared to what the hyperpreterists say)

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