Wednesday, November 27, 2013

Larry Siegle the Dapocaginous?

Larry Siegle is a Full/Hyperpreterist known within that movement as kind of squishy, in that he normally presents his beliefs so vaguely that it is almost impossible to pin him down on anything. He is also known as a passive aggressive -- in that he comes off as the grandfatherly voice of reason and then lays it on you that you are the aggressive and rude one. Siegle has also been known for trying to present himself as a "seasoned" Full Preterist; one who is on the inside with men like Don Preston.  At any rate, I wanted to give a little background on Siegle before I get to the meat of this article.

As the readers may know, the movement hasn't been faring too well lately. It has lost a lot of "big names" over the last 10 years and is merely a shadow of its former self. There is much more infighting than there has been in the past. Well, even Siegle seems to be ready to rumble with his fellow Full Preterists.

On perhaps one of the last active "lists" where Full Preterists interact; a list called PretCosmos, Siegle was taking fellow Full Preterists, Dave Green and Michael Sullivan to task over the lackluster sells of their Full Preterist book.  Siegle said:

"First, the book that should have been responded to was The End Times Controversy because of its larger circulation and wider audience among the futurist community. When Shall These Things Be? was a book that received recognition among a far smaller group of Reformed believers whose eschatological views are considered relatively insignificant in comparison..." (source)
How true, and while I was a Full Preterist, I did write a comprehensive review of Tim LaHaye and Thomas Ice's book, The End Times Controversy: The Second Coming Under Attack (Tim LaHaye Prophecy Library) . You can read what is left of it in these 5 parts (1,2,3,4,5) I actually completed the manuscript but as I was working my way out of the movement, I shelved it.  I'm not certain there is anything left of it but those links.  Boy, I sure sounded just like any Full/Hyperpreterist you may read today. Further, Siegle took Green and his co-authors to task for waiting so long to write a response book. But the delay happened because fellow Hyperpret Ed Stevens claimed he was putting a team together to write a response.  At one time there were supposedly 3 teams of responders; Stevens' team, Don Preston's team and Green's team.  Green's team got the job done.  I talk about this mess here. Green reminds Siegle that the delay was not his fault.
"As for the late timing of "House Divided," that was not us, Larry.    :)    As you mentioned, Ed Stevens was putting a response book together.  We waited and we waited for that response, but his project never came to fruition.  Than after we could wait no longer, we decided to write "House Divided."  The delay was ALL Ed Stevens' delay, not our delay..." (source)
I guess the point is, the movement is more divided today than it has ever been. They can claim all they want that they are unified but so many of the new guys have no idea about the history of the movement and why so many big names left it. I'll keep watching and reporting back to you.


Anonymous said...

Just realized this Larry Seigle is also from the "Reformist" Church of Christ. Also from Ardmore, same place with Don Preston. hmmmm.

Why are these people have a penchant for "AD 70" All things fulfilled? Haha.

It's sad he "invested more than 30 years of his life in ministry" only to come to a wrong conclusion.
Tim Lahaye, Jenkins and Ice did the same, they invented "non-Biblical" End time scenarios (666 microchip, Pre trib rapture, 7 year marriage supper then comming back with Christ, restored temple sacrifice. etc) all are which a product of some wild but creative imagination. Nevertheless they are slightly right because they "know" Christ will come back again in the future.

Roderick_E said...

Hi there, very observant to see the connection between FPism and the denomination "coc".

They are not "Reformist" though -- they come from what was called the "Restoration Movement", which gave us Mormonism and JWs and the Pentecostals as well. The mindset of the Restorationists was that the true Church and true Gospel ceased to exist and thus had to be "restored". See this article about difference between Reform/Restore/Transform

But anyhow, most of the main leaders of FPism were originally associated with coc -- Max King, Tim King, Virgil Vaduva, Ed Stevens, Larry Siegle, William Bell, Don Preston, Jack Scott, Kurt Simmons and more. They are ripe for being FPists (or Mormons and JWs for that matter) because they already have a lone-ranger mentality that they think God couldn't/didn't keep His collective together. They believe the Church actually failed to exist on the face of the earth at one point and had to be "restored" by them. This arrogance permeates FPism. "We are here to fix what God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit couldn't" This is the reason I always point to the best defense against heresy of all sorts, is not a blind following of one's denomination, BUT the faithful following of the Church Christ founded, which never ceased, never failed and of which all Christians across denominational lines are part of -- the Church universal.

Roderick_E said...

hmm -- the Restoration Movement link didn't post correctly in my comment above. Here it is:

Anonymous said...

Yeah. very much agreed!

This Restoration Movements did not realized what God hath promised that the "gates of hell will not prevail" over his Church.

I did some research and they believe the "True" Church became apostate because of the Roman Catholics and the Protestant. That's why they have to rebuild it. Just like what you pointed out, the Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses, 7th day Adventist established their own doctrines and eschatology because of that belief.

Is James Stewart Russel also a CoC?, He seems to be the grand daddy of all this people and the first one apart from the Jesuit priest to spread this what I think the most heretical Eschatological doctrine which is Full Preterism.

What makes this deadly is that they made a completely new eschatology that the church fathers could not even dare imagined. I pointed out LaHaye, Jenkins and other dispensationalist, I don't favor any side but they are much better or should I say "lesser evil" because even though they made up this whole Left Behind premillenial dispensationalist theory, they still have roots to the historic premillenialism that the Church Fathers believe which is the future bodily 2nd advent. And most of all Christ will come back again in the Future. It's where all Christianity agreed. :)