Thursday, July 21, 2011

Don Preston Won't Debate His Own

He goes by "RiversOfEden" because I think he works in sensitive government positions, and since hyperpreterists have been known to even threaten people's families -- he has to be careful. At any rate, it doesn't matter what a person's name is but what they are saying...well.. unless by knowing a person's name allows his opponents to personally attack him, which is probably the hyperprets motives for wanting R.O.E.s name. It is enough that he has been consistently using this alias.

R.O.E. was in the movement from early on. He helped Ed Stevens with some of his articles. What makes R.O.E. different than the average hyperpret, is:

1) He isn't trying to pretend hyperpreterism is "Christian".
2) He takes the hyperpret premise of "all fulfilled" to the logical conclusion.
3) He isn't....well...a jerk like most of them.

Let's deal with each of these 3 distinctions.

R.O.E. understands that it is dishonest for hyperpreterists to claim to be part of historic Christianity, just as it is dishonest for Mormons and JWs to try to make that claim. Although R.O.E. would say even historic Christianity is not the same as the pre-ad70 Christianity, he would say hyperpreterism is not pre- or post-ad70 Christianity. Full/Hyperpreterism is something other than Christianity.

For all the hyperprets hatred for the historic Christian concept of "already-not-yet" fulfillment; the hyperprets aren't too consistent with the "all is fulfilled" mantra. R.O.E. on the other hand understands the logical conclusions of hyperpreterism in that the Elect and Reprobate (sheep and goats, wheat and tares) according to hyperpreterism have been JUDGED. People beyond ad70 are outside those 2 classifications. Further, R.O.E. consistently applies the schema to "God's people" -- the Jews/Sons of Abraham/Israelites. (John 4:22) He would see the "Gentiles" and "Greeks" as descendants of Abraham who had lived among or intermarried with the non-Elect "world". Think of the Samaritans who also were "children of Abraham" (see Mt 10:5, John 4:9, John 4:22 & Thus, the "plan of God" only pertained to "God's people" and "All of Israel" was saved. (Rom 11:25-26). 

Especially as some hyperpreterists are advocating that Adam was not the first created human, but merely the first man into which God enter covenant (ie "Covenant Creationists Hyperpreterists like Tim Martin and Jeff Vaughn). R.O.E. is therefore even more consistent than those hyperprets because R.O.E. can then say Rom 3:9, that the Covenant promises and the Covenant punishments ONLY APPLY to the covenantal descendants of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

So, R.O.E. can REALLY claim "all is fulfilled" because he has it only applying to pre-AD70 sons of the covenant -- whether they were practicing "Jews" or wayward "Gentiles" -- All Israel was "saved".

R.O.E. doesn't come off as a jerk like many hyperprets because unlike many hyperprets, R.O.E. isn't trying to overthrow historic Christianity and replace it with his own made-up religion. Hyperpreterism by nature MUST be hostile to Christianity, where since R.O.E. sees Christianity as having its complete fulfillment in the "last days" of the 1st century, he need not be...well....a jerk.

Don has done well debating dispensationalists, "partial preterists", and even against some folks that don't really understand what hyperpreterism is actually advocating. But let's see how Preston does when he is faced with someone who uses Preston's OWN premises and then takes it to logical conclusions. That would be a debate I'd pay money to watch.

If you want to hear more about R.O.E. CONSISTENT FULL PRETERISM, check out this podcast with RiversOfEden:

P.S. Even Sam Frost and Mike Loomis have seen RiversOfEdens advocacy as a consistent application of "Full Preterism".

UPDATE  - Don Preston Responds

So, the "great full preterist debatesman", Don Preston responds....

"I will not debate RoE. His "theology" is atheism in theological garb, and racist. Christ does not love you, "Walls", or any none Semite. I conclude that you support his racism. Chris rejects the lexical evidence and perverts the scripture. To suggest Jesus' resurrection has no universal meaning is extremely illogical. Christ died "not for us only, but for the sins of the whole world." I will not allow your posts much longer. Your, and his, racist agenda fails with me." ---
Really? Preston has hit a new low. He whines and complains people won't debate hyperpreterists because hyperpreterism is heretical yet here Preston grossly misrepresents RoEs beliefs.

RoE's theology is NOT "atheism" since RoE DOES believe in God.
RoE's theology is NOT racist unless Preston thinks God's special love for His people is racist??? If anything, many hyperpreterist come off as almost anti-Semitic -- not RoE.

Then Preston has the hypocrisy to claim "[RoE] rejects the lexical evidence and perverts the scripture."

Really? Isn't that the Christian charge against Preston's own hyperpreterism?????

Next Don shows his Arminian roots with this comment:

"To suggest Jesus' resurrection has no universal meaning is extremely illogical. Christ died "not for us only, but for the sins of the whole world."

Again Really??? So Don wants to debate James White, a Calvinist who ALSO believes Christ died ONLY for a specific group and not for the "sins of the whole world". What is Don trying to tell us? That he is about to embrace hyperpreterist universalism???

Lastly, the brave Preston threatens to ban people who are challenging him to debate RoE. Not one of these people have uttered any "racist" comment yet Don LIES and like a typical worm, attempts to shutdown all opposition.

That folks is your hyperpret "champion" -- A guy who admits he couldn't "grow" his heresy over a 14 year period with a captive audience (see here). A guy who claims to be "president" of a one man "institute". A guy who challenges others but won't allow himself to be challenged. A guy who misrepresents people so he can weasel out of a debate. A guy who threatens people with banning when Don can't respond.

Don is a FRAUD who attempts to debate big names like James White and Ken Gentry so that Don can look like he is a big man. Yet here we see Don AFRAID to engage one of his own.

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