Saturday, October 15, 2011

Kenneth Talbot and Sam Frost Advise Against Whitefield Theological Seminary

Kenneth Talbot, president and founder of Whitefield Theological Seminary, and his star pupil Samuel Frost, unwittingly tell us why a person should NOT take courses from WTS. In a podcast Talbot did on October 9th 2011 with Frost the two men discuss how Frost was able to become a hyperpreterist, even though for many years Frost was under the direct tutelage of Talbot (source).

After the listener gets through Frost and Talbot talking over each other, they will hear the blatant and hypocritical contradictions of these men as they try to dance around the FACT that Frost was a major leader in the heresy of hyperpreterism while not only attending WTS but while he was actually helping develop student materials for the supposed "Christian" seminary. All this with the full knowledge and support of Talbot.

During the course of the discussion Frost tells us he was "fresh out of college" when he was exposed to hyperpreterism, which echoes ANOTHER hyperpreterist leader, Don Preston (see here).

Fresh out of college/seminary


Further, Frost AND Talbot both admit that the hyperpreterist movement sprang from the "churches of Christ" and Frost admits that "he didn't know what he was getting involved with". While Talbot says hyperpreterism is "centered" in the "churches of Christ" doctrine.

Frost admits to being a novice

Talbot on hyperpreterism being a coc movement


Yet, Frost admits his main influences while he was a hyperpreterist, were from "church of Christ" hyperpreterists, such as Don Preston, Jack Scott, William Bell and Larry Siegle. Of important note, Siegle is currently attending WTS and earning a "ministers" degree. Whom will this WTS trained heretic "minister" to? (source)

Frost in thick with hyperpreterists


Ironically, Talbot brings out the fact that Frost is one of the only "seminary trained" hyperpreterist leaders. Trained at WTS nonetheless, just like Siegle whom Talbot is training to be a "minister" though Siegle has not recanted his heresy. A lot of good being trained at WTS did Frost, since he continued to grow in the hyperpreterist movement while under the eye of Talbot. In fact, Frost would often brag that he was a hyperpreterist BECAUSE OF his training at WTS.

WTS trains heretics


Now, here comes the contradiction and hypocrisy if it hasn't been displayed yet. Frost tells the listeners that there really isn't anything "new" in theology and that the SAME ANSWERS that historic Christianity gave throughout the ages applies also today. -- AMEN! but..... keep reading/listening... Frost is a master of contradiction.

Christianity gives good and same answers



But close to the end of the podcast, both Frost and Talbot tell us the reason people fall into the heresy of hyperpreterism among other heresies is because the Church wasn't giving "good answers".
Christianity does NOT give good answers?



Whose job was it to help Frost? Here he is admittly, "fresh out of college", being exposed to a group he says "he didn't know what he was getting involved with" and yet while under the guidance of Talbot and WTS, Frost isn't being given "good answers" that would help him avoid heresy. Frost says there wasn't an "adequet defense" against what the hyperpreterists were saying. Where was Talbot and WTS in all this???

Well, perhaps the most revealing and shocking comment in the entire podcast was made by Talbot when he admits his self-made, "Realized Preterism" is in essence the same as David Chilton's hyperpreterism.

Talbot is a "modified" hyperpreterist?


First, Talbot falsely or deceptively tries to portray Chilton as a "modified preterist" rather than what Chilton himself admitted was full preterism. Talbot then tells us his own form of preterism that he calls "realized preterism" is "akin to" what Chilton was advocating. Chilton became a documented full or hyperpreterist. (source). It is no wonder then that Talbot and WTS couldn't help Frost avoid the heresy of hyperpreterism if it appears WTS' president is telling us in essence that he is embracing hyperpreterism via Chilton.

So, Frost having been under the tutelage of Talbot and WTS, who we now see apparently admit his eschatological views are akin to documented hyperpreterist Chilton, Frost says he understands why people become full preterists; because the Church isn't doing its job to properly instruct people -- WHO WAS INSTRUCTING SAM FROST WHEN HE WAS DEEP INTO HYPERPRETERISM???


So, why should anyone want to go to WTS when the president and its star student tell us that WTS as an agent of the Church has "FAILED" to "properly teach systematic theology"??? Isn't this the role of a seminary like WTS, to properly teach systematic theology? That is certainly what Talbot tells us in his promo at the end of the podcast.

WTS promotion misleading?


Why would someone want to let WTS provide their seminary and theological education needs if they have a podcast admitting they fail to "properly teach systematic theology"? When you think it can't get any worse, Talbot advocates the same premise that has generated hyperpreterism and the many other heresies throughout time. Every cult or heresy, including the "churches of Christ" with its "restorationist" the-true-church-and-true-gospel-failed and thus had to be restored mentality has started with the idea that the Church is failing. Talbot joins in with this false premise.

Talbot says Church is failing


Lastly, it comes full circle. Frost told us ealier on that the answers that the Church gives, have been the same and need not be changed because all heresies are merely old heresies wrapped in new packaging yet before the end of the podcast we have:
  1. Frost telling us he was a novice when he fell into hyperpreterism
  2. He didn't know what he was getting involved with
  3. That the Church fails to properly teach people
  4. Talbot telling us his views are "akin" to Chilton hyperpreterism
  5. Talbot telling us the Church is failing
  6. Frost questioning why the Church (ie WTS) didn't fulfill its role

WTS' role in heresy


When in October of 2008 I sent an email to Talbot and WTS to inquire about their position on hyperpreterism and why they were allowing Frost, as a known hyperpreterist leader to develop student materials for the seminary, Talbot didn't immediately write back but instead released my email to Frost whom I never mention in the email.(source) And then after a brief attempt to smooth things over with me, even by offering me free tuition at his seminary, which I ultimately declined, Talbot and his followers have done everything to destroy me. Why??? As you can see in THEIR OWN WORDS, in context (listen to the entire windbag, elitist podcast if you have the time), you see why. Frost and Talbot are building a "modified" version of full preterism called "Realized Preterism". To this day, you can only get Talbot's notes and lectures on his "Realized Preterism" if you are part of his select group. Why not place it in the public forum? Why all of this secrecy and attempt to make Chilton look like he was not a full preterist?

Before anyone claims it, what I have presented here is NOT "slander" or "libel" or "defamation" or "ad hom attack". These are Frost and Talbot's OWN WORDS. Not spun but honestly, openly, analyzed and presented. TKC welcomes comments even from non-registered readers unlike many of the places where Frost and Talbot administer which not only require registration to comment but sometimes to even read.

In their OWN WORDS why would anyone go to WTS if this is the kind of education they will receive? Frost's "hope" and educational needs were "misplaced".

Tuesday, October 4, 2011

Don K. Preston: A Novice Teacher

Don K. Preston, perhaps the last active "leader" within the hyperpreterist movement has begun a podcast series he is calling "Morning Musings". In this series, Preston recounts how and why he became a "full preterist".

First, I always think it is amusing how Preston claims he is the "president" of "Preterist Research Institute" as if there is an entire staff of officers.  It is basically just Preston.  But anyhow, during the initial podcast Preston tells us he "doesn't worry about traditions" and "doesn't worry about the creeds" (minute 2:31-2:44).  Really? So, Preston is admitting he is a lone-ranger who only "worries about" his own interpretations of the Bible.  However, Jesus didn't come to found a disconnected faith of radical individualists.  Jesus founded a community of believers with common held beliefs. (1 Corinthians 10:17, Philippians 1:27, Jude 1:3)  This disconnecting from the historic Christian community is the first step to any heresy.  Preston has in essence made himself his master and disciple, whereas the Bible says:

Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle. -- 2 Thes 2:15

Preston tells us from the start that he "doesn't worry about" or rather doesn't CARE about these "traditions".  Instead he wants to listen to his own voice alone.