A Skeptic Admits Using Preterism to Attack Christianity

On CARM (a Christian message board), I responded to a "skeptic" that not only had some very sincere questions but he admitted to using preterism to attack Christianity.  That response is as follows:

 Originally Posted byDecypher 

So preterists will sometimes say that they are "giving an answer" to the skeptic. Are they? In a way, obviously they give an "answer" of a sort. That is, they are putting forward a scenario under which Jesus' prophecy would have been fulfilled.

Thanks Decy for bringing this out. You have touched on the heart of the problem. For "Preterists" (hyper and partials) to make a claim that 2,000 years of historic Christian interpretation on endtimes/eschatology has supposedly been in gross error, is indeed an "answer" of sorts. But it is an undermining answer from both the hyper and the partial. I mean, suppose I was making the case for adhering to American principles of free-market capitalism but I claimed that all the historic "fore-fathers" of America didn't adhere or advocate free-market capitalism but instead socialism or communism. How would that affect my case?

Preterists do the same thing. They claim to appeal to the Bible but then claim that the God of the Bible has for whatever reason, been unable or unwilling to maintain the most basic correct understanding of His eschatological plan among His people. What then makes a Preterist (of any sort), think the Bible has been maintained? Further, why would a skeptic trust a God that can't either convey or maintain His most basic plans???

Whitefield Theological Seminary and Kenneth Talbot Now and Then

As readers may know, I have had a 2 year-disagreement with Dr. Kenneth Talbot and his supporters. This disagreement STARTED when I first approached Dr. Talbot in late 2008, asking why his seminary (Whitefield Theological Seminary - WTS) was utilizing a well-known hyperpreterist leader (Sam Frost) to edit their students materials, and if Dr. Talbot and WTS considered hyperpreterism to be heresy.


This was the reply at the time:

"Whitefield Theological Seminary does not promote Full (Hyper) Preterism. Whitefield Theological Seminary maintains that Full (Hyper) Preterism is a ‘very dangerous’ theological error. Further, some Full (Hyper) Preterists may be heretical pending on their other doctrines as it relates to God, Christ, Man, and Salvation. Each individual would need to be interviewed for me to make that determination." -- http://www.preteristblog.com/?p=1307

As you can see, it is non-committal that an entire system is heretical and instead wants to pick and choose individuals within that system, probably because Talbot wanted to find a way to claim Frost wasn't heretical even though he was/is a main leader of the entire movement.

Nothing Is Heresy to Gary DeMar

Gary DeMar has been repeatedly asked if "full preterism/hyperpreterism" is heresy.  Every time, DeMar either gives a vague, not-committal answer or actually has come out and said, "No" he doesn't think it is heresy (as he did when hyperpret leader Sam Frost asked DeMar on the Narrow Mind radio show here: http://www.preteristsite.com/mp3/demarwithfrost.mp3 --transcript: "personally I do not consider it heretical because, you know like some say this is the Hymenaen heresy, and of course you don't deny the Resurrection" -- as if that is the only thing that causes it to be heretical).

DeMar was again recently asked via email (by an atheist) if he thinks full/hyperpreterism is heresy and here is how DeMar replied:

An Interaction with Hyperpreterist Jerry Bowers

Jerry Bowers Jr. is a fellow who came on the hyperpreterist scene in about 2006.  He didn't make a huge splash and was soon rejected by Ward Fenley and others as simply a guy who was trying to proffer his own version of "full preterism".  Jerry's intent becomes clear upon reading an article he wrote in 2010 called "Beyond Religion, Beyond Christianity & Beyond Full Preterism" (source).  Jerry wants to move "beyond" not just "full preterism" but beyond Christianity.

Upon reading Jerry's article, you will notice that while in jail he says he read and read one book of the Bible over and over; the book of Revelation.  Is it then no wonder Jerry concluded some very unbalanced beliefs?  He read the last book of the Bible without having the context of everything that came before.

Jerry added a live chat window to his article, so I decided to engage him one day and here is the result of that discussion.  I am "Vistor3" (vistor is the default name given so I was not attempting to deceive Jerry).  Before the discussion is over, Jerry figures out it is me anyhow, since I've had previous discussions with him.  See discussion after READ MORE

Hyperpreterists Then and Now

In December 2007 I went on the radio/podcast show called The Narrow Mind (TNM) with Gene Cook jr and publicly renounced hyperpreterism. After that program, hyperpreterist Jason Bradfield aka "kingneb", protege of hyperpreterist leader Sam Frost made several comments on the program.  Bradfield tried to at first claim I was simply trying to "get attention", but when it was shown that I specifically didn't even mention my website, Bradfield attempted several other things, including claiming I was simply trying to bash my former "full preterist" fellows.

FASTFORWARD July/Aug 2010

In 2010 Bradfield posted a scathing "apology" against the hyperpreterist movement, claiming MANY of the same things I claimed in 2007.  Here are a few quotes from Bradfield, all from the same article.  Read them and then listen to the TNM podcast I did in 2007 and see if Bradfield sounds like he is where I was in 2007.

BRADFIELD'S COMMENTS